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	<title>Comments on: Writing Communities and Toxic Perfectionism</title>
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		<title>By: Angelle&#8217;s Blog: Calliope&#8217;s Faithful Servant &#187; 30/13 Challenge: Day One</title>
		<link>http://www.alinamorgan.com/2006/03/08/writing-communities-and-toxic-perfectionism/comment-page-1/#comment-58</link>
		<dc:creator>Angelle&#8217;s Blog: Calliope&#8217;s Faithful Servant &#187; 30/13 Challenge: Day One</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Mar 2006 15:41:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nonny.windsofstorm.net/wordpress/2006/03/08/writing-communities-and-toxic-perfectionism/#comment-58</guid>
		<description>[...] BTW - everyone should read Nonny&#8217;s excellent post on writing by the rules. What she said there really resonated with me because it reflected my own experience. And to add to her post, there are those who mean well but are clueless. There are those who want to sabotage you and use these &#8220;rules&#8221; to discourage you. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] BTW &#8211; everyone should read Nonny&#8217;s excellent post on writing by the rules. What she said there really resonated with me because it reflected my own experience. And to add to her post, there are those who mean well but are clueless. There are those who want to sabotage you and use these &#8220;rules&#8221; to discourage you. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Nonny</title>
		<link>http://www.alinamorgan.com/2006/03/08/writing-communities-and-toxic-perfectionism/comment-page-1/#comment-43</link>
		<dc:creator>Nonny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nonny.windsofstorm.net/wordpress/2006/03/08/writing-communities-and-toxic-perfectionism/#comment-43</guid>
		<description>Barbara:
&quot;I love Evolution, btw! I love that you focus more on the actual writing, less on the misc. b.s., and encourage writers to be who they are. Not that I don&#039;t enjoy RD and other communities... it&#039;s just that the philosophy is different. I think most communities are goal oriented, not craft oriented, and their strict adherence to the &quot;writing rules&quot; is one of the direct results.&quot;

Exactly. I have nothing but support and encouragement for people who want to be published and work to achieve those goals.

But publication shouldn&#039;t be the end-all, be-all of writing.

It shouldn&#039;t be something that a writer MUST aspire to in order to be a &quot;real writer.&quot; While I haven&#039;t seen anyone out and out told they&#039;re not a &quot;real writer&quot; if publication isn&#039;t that important to them, it&#039;s the attitude they have. I &lt;I&gt;have&lt;/I&gt; seen writers told, many times, that they shouldn&#039;t be writing what they&#039;re working on because &quot;it&#039;ll never sell.&quot;

That sort of attitude kills passion. It kills creativity. It kills the love for writing.

I was a member of a writing community founded by a print-published author (call me elitist if you want, but there&#039;s still a distinct difference between print and ebooks, IMO). Several other published authors hung out there and freely gave advice.

All of them were prolific and wrote more than one book a year. Two were self-supporting fiction writers. In blogs and forum posts, they talked about how they submitted proposals to their agent and editor, and decided what they would write based on that. Which makes sense--if writing is your main source of income.

Problem is, the community as a general whole picked up on &quot;write what will sell.&quot; I used to think it was just that community, but I&#039;m really not sure anymore, cause I see it to some extent at RD. At least RD puts it in a positive light. My former community, by the point I left, did not.

If you&#039;re not writing what you love, it carries into your work. It can be beautiful, perfect prose, a great story, and still fall flat cause your heart&#039;s not into it.

That&#039;s part of what we&#039;re trying to focus on with Evolution after the revamp. We want to foster creativity and love for writing, as well as support and encourage those actively trying to get published. I don&#039;t want us to be just another publication-oriented writing community--cause there&#039;s more to writing than just business.

The hardest thing is a lot of people don&#039;t see it going on until they&#039;ve burnt themselves to the core. They don&#039;t recognise that trying for perfection, trying for saleability, changing parts of their work to fit a critiquer&#039;s viewpoint is hurting them. They think they&#039;re making progress. That they&#039;re almost there. Until they hit the glass wall and can&#039;t figure out why they&#039;re blocked.

*shakes head*

It&#039;s really a sad situation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barbara:<br />
&#8220;I love Evolution, btw! I love that you focus more on the actual writing, less on the misc. b.s., and encourage writers to be who they are. Not that I don&#8217;t enjoy RD and other communities&#8230; it&#8217;s just that the philosophy is different. I think most communities are goal oriented, not craft oriented, and their strict adherence to the &#8220;writing rules&#8221; is one of the direct results.&#8221;</p>
<p>Exactly. I have nothing but support and encouragement for people who want to be published and work to achieve those goals.</p>
<p>But publication shouldn&#8217;t be the end-all, be-all of writing.</p>
<p>It shouldn&#8217;t be something that a writer MUST aspire to in order to be a &#8220;real writer.&#8221; While I haven&#8217;t seen anyone out and out told they&#8217;re not a &#8220;real writer&#8221; if publication isn&#8217;t that important to them, it&#8217;s the attitude they have. I <i>have</i> seen writers told, many times, that they shouldn&#8217;t be writing what they&#8217;re working on because &#8220;it&#8217;ll never sell.&#8221;</p>
<p>That sort of attitude kills passion. It kills creativity. It kills the love for writing.</p>
<p>I was a member of a writing community founded by a print-published author (call me elitist if you want, but there&#8217;s still a distinct difference between print and ebooks, IMO). Several other published authors hung out there and freely gave advice.</p>
<p>All of them were prolific and wrote more than one book a year. Two were self-supporting fiction writers. In blogs and forum posts, they talked about how they submitted proposals to their agent and editor, and decided what they would write based on that. Which makes sense&#8211;if writing is your main source of income.</p>
<p>Problem is, the community as a general whole picked up on &#8220;write what will sell.&#8221; I used to think it was just that community, but I&#8217;m really not sure anymore, cause I see it to some extent at RD. At least RD puts it in a positive light. My former community, by the point I left, did not.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re not writing what you love, it carries into your work. It can be beautiful, perfect prose, a great story, and still fall flat cause your heart&#8217;s not into it.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s part of what we&#8217;re trying to focus on with Evolution after the revamp. We want to foster creativity and love for writing, as well as support and encourage those actively trying to get published. I don&#8217;t want us to be just another publication-oriented writing community&#8211;cause there&#8217;s more to writing than just business.</p>
<p>The hardest thing is a lot of people don&#8217;t see it going on until they&#8217;ve burnt themselves to the core. They don&#8217;t recognise that trying for perfection, trying for saleability, changing parts of their work to fit a critiquer&#8217;s viewpoint is hurting them. They think they&#8217;re making progress. That they&#8217;re almost there. Until they hit the glass wall and can&#8217;t figure out why they&#8217;re blocked.</p>
<p>*shakes head*</p>
<p>It&#8217;s really a sad situation.</p>
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		<title>By: Barbara Gisondi</title>
		<link>http://www.alinamorgan.com/2006/03/08/writing-communities-and-toxic-perfectionism/comment-page-1/#comment-42</link>
		<dc:creator>Barbara Gisondi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nonny.windsofstorm.net/wordpress/2006/03/08/writing-communities-and-toxic-perfectionism/#comment-42</guid>
		<description>I love that you wrote this!  Lately, I&#039;ve been feeling like I&#039;ve been focusing too much on publication and trying to follow all the rules.  I&#039;ve been trying to make my &quot;square peg&quot; story fit into a round hole.  And it&#039;s never going to happen!

So, I choose to write my story my way.  It might never get published, but that&#039;s not the point of writing.  It may be the goal, yes.  But the point?  No, I don&#039;t think so.  

I love Evolution, btw!  I love that you focus more on the actual writing, less on the misc. b.s., and encourage writers to be who they are.  Not that I don&#039;t enjoy RD and other communities...  it&#039;s just that the philosophy is different.  I think most communities are goal oriented, not craft oriented, and their strict adherence to the &quot;writing rules&quot; is one of the direct results.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love that you wrote this!  Lately, I&#8217;ve been feeling like I&#8217;ve been focusing too much on publication and trying to follow all the rules.  I&#8217;ve been trying to make my &#8220;square peg&#8221; story fit into a round hole.  And it&#8217;s never going to happen!</p>
<p>So, I choose to write my story my way.  It might never get published, but that&#8217;s not the point of writing.  It may be the goal, yes.  But the point?  No, I don&#8217;t think so.  </p>
<p>I love Evolution, btw!  I love that you focus more on the actual writing, less on the misc. b.s., and encourage writers to be who they are.  Not that I don&#8217;t enjoy RD and other communities&#8230;  it&#8217;s just that the philosophy is different.  I think most communities are goal oriented, not craft oriented, and their strict adherence to the &#8220;writing rules&#8221; is one of the direct results.</p>
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		<title>By: Vivienne King</title>
		<link>http://www.alinamorgan.com/2006/03/08/writing-communities-and-toxic-perfectionism/comment-page-1/#comment-41</link>
		<dc:creator>Vivienne King</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nonny.windsofstorm.net/wordpress/2006/03/08/writing-communities-and-toxic-perfectionism/#comment-41</guid>
		<description>Yep, Nonny.  I get it.  And you make some very valid points.  Wish more people would realize that.  I think it&#039;s too easy to get brainwashed into a certain style of writing.  After you see so many people tell you over and over you can&#039;t use this..(even if they don&#039;t  have the slightest clue that in that case yes, you damn well should...) makes it too easy to decide, that&#039;s just it.  This is wrong and  you become some avenging disciple who&#039;s sole purpose is to strike the use of ly from every single ms.  

Grrrr...hate that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep, Nonny.  I get it.  And you make some very valid points.  Wish more people would realize that.  I think it&#8217;s too easy to get brainwashed into a certain style of writing.  After you see so many people tell you over and over you can&#8217;t use this..(even if they don&#8217;t  have the slightest clue that in that case yes, you damn well should&#8230;) makes it too easy to decide, that&#8217;s just it.  This is wrong and  you become some avenging disciple who&#8217;s sole purpose is to strike the use of ly from every single ms.  </p>
<p>Grrrr&#8230;hate that.</p>
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		<title>By: Shelli Stevens</title>
		<link>http://www.alinamorgan.com/2006/03/08/writing-communities-and-toxic-perfectionism/comment-page-1/#comment-40</link>
		<dc:creator>Shelli Stevens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Mar 2006 22:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nonny.windsofstorm.net/wordpress/2006/03/08/writing-communities-and-toxic-perfectionism/#comment-40</guid>
		<description>I drown in all the rules. It&#039;s pretty crazy at times. I just got my first edits back and realized I have an LY problem. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I drown in all the rules. It&#8217;s pretty crazy at times. I just got my first edits back and realized I have an LY problem. <img src='http://www.alinamorgan.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Nonny</title>
		<link>http://www.alinamorgan.com/2006/03/08/writing-communities-and-toxic-perfectionism/comment-page-1/#comment-39</link>
		<dc:creator>Nonny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Mar 2006 19:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nonny.windsofstorm.net/wordpress/2006/03/08/writing-communities-and-toxic-perfectionism/#comment-39</guid>
		<description>&quot;I really dislike that. I don&#039;t like rules. Writing rules are a guideline, something to take stock of to help you strengthen your writing.&quot;

Exactly. While removing adverbs and forms of &quot;to be&quot; makes stronger, more vivid description--you don&#039;t &lt;I&gt;always&lt;/I&gt; need it. Personally, I find it most useful to draw attention to a place or character... like those photoshopped images you see, where everything is greyed out except for the bright red lips, or nails, or such. 


&quot;Passive adds an eloquence that active can never touch.&quot;

Passive voice can also place emphasis on the proper subject... for example:

&quot;John was touched by the hand of God&quot; -- attention is drawn to *John*

instead of

&quot;The hand of God touched John&quot; -- which puts emphasis on the hand.

Make sense?

(I can&#039;t believe I just used God in a grammar example. o.O)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I really dislike that. I don&#8217;t like rules. Writing rules are a guideline, something to take stock of to help you strengthen your writing.&#8221;</p>
<p>Exactly. While removing adverbs and forms of &#8220;to be&#8221; makes stronger, more vivid description&#8211;you don&#8217;t <i>always</i> need it. Personally, I find it most useful to draw attention to a place or character&#8230; like those photoshopped images you see, where everything is greyed out except for the bright red lips, or nails, or such. </p>
<p>&#8220;Passive adds an eloquence that active can never touch.&#8221;</p>
<p>Passive voice can also place emphasis on the proper subject&#8230; for example:</p>
<p>&#8220;John was touched by the hand of God&#8221; &#8212; attention is drawn to *John*</p>
<p>instead of</p>
<p>&#8220;The hand of God touched John&#8221; &#8212; which puts emphasis on the hand.</p>
<p>Make sense?</p>
<p>(I can&#8217;t believe I just used God in a grammar example. o.O)</p>
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		<title>By: Vivienne King</title>
		<link>http://www.alinamorgan.com/2006/03/08/writing-communities-and-toxic-perfectionism/comment-page-1/#comment-38</link>
		<dc:creator>Vivienne King</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Mar 2006 07:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nonny.windsofstorm.net/wordpress/2006/03/08/writing-communities-and-toxic-perfectionism/#comment-38</guid>
		<description>Wow, Nonni.  You captured what I was thinking tonight.  I just received a crit that said I can&#039;t do X, Y, and Z.  And not only that but it all felt a little condescending.  I&#039;ve got tough skin and I can take it, but what really jerks my chain is that this critter believes (as do most critters I come across)...that just because King said adverbs are the devil&#039;s pawn...well that piece of advice was written in gold and should be held to the letter.  

I really dislike that.  I don&#039;t like rules.  Writing rules are a guideline, something to take stock of to help you strengthen your writing.  But if you took out all adverbs...well the book would be about a million times longer with all these unnecessary descriptions when he ran quickly works just as well.  Grrr...thankfully, I&#039;ve been around for a while and can ignore crits like those...but to a newbie, something like that is just plain damaging.

My other big pet peeve...people who tell you never to write in passive.  I&#039;m sorry, but sometimes passive just reads better.  Passive adds an eloquence that active can never touch.  All in moderation now, but seriously.  If I stuck to those rules all the time my books would be lifeless and dull.  I write what I like and know...and you&#039;re damn right that readers don&#039;t give two shits whether I write active over passive.

Gawd, if they did do you think Christine Feehan (with her constant head hopping) would ever have made it as big as she has?  I seriously doubt it.  As an author her style of writing aggravates the hell out of me, but I&#039;m clearly in the minority and I wish more authors would understand rules are made to be broken.  Learn &#039;em first, then break &#039;em, and you&#039;ll write what you love.

Ironic that you wrote about this tonight, I blogged about something very similar myself.  

~~Vivienne (and I too belong to RD, but under my real name. ;) )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, Nonni.  You captured what I was thinking tonight.  I just received a crit that said I can&#8217;t do X, Y, and Z.  And not only that but it all felt a little condescending.  I&#8217;ve got tough skin and I can take it, but what really jerks my chain is that this critter believes (as do most critters I come across)&#8230;that just because King said adverbs are the devil&#8217;s pawn&#8230;well that piece of advice was written in gold and should be held to the letter.  </p>
<p>I really dislike that.  I don&#8217;t like rules.  Writing rules are a guideline, something to take stock of to help you strengthen your writing.  But if you took out all adverbs&#8230;well the book would be about a million times longer with all these unnecessary descriptions when he ran quickly works just as well.  Grrr&#8230;thankfully, I&#8217;ve been around for a while and can ignore crits like those&#8230;but to a newbie, something like that is just plain damaging.</p>
<p>My other big pet peeve&#8230;people who tell you never to write in passive.  I&#8217;m sorry, but sometimes passive just reads better.  Passive adds an eloquence that active can never touch.  All in moderation now, but seriously.  If I stuck to those rules all the time my books would be lifeless and dull.  I write what I like and know&#8230;and you&#8217;re damn right that readers don&#8217;t give two shits whether I write active over passive.</p>
<p>Gawd, if they did do you think Christine Feehan (with her constant head hopping) would ever have made it as big as she has?  I seriously doubt it.  As an author her style of writing aggravates the hell out of me, but I&#8217;m clearly in the minority and I wish more authors would understand rules are made to be broken.  Learn &#8216;em first, then break &#8216;em, and you&#8217;ll write what you love.</p>
<p>Ironic that you wrote about this tonight, I blogged about something very similar myself.  </p>
<p>~~Vivienne (and I too belong to RD, but under my real name. <img src='http://www.alinamorgan.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  )</p>
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